From: (Anonymous)	Date: March 14th, 2007 12:00 am (UTC)		(Link)
Some thoughts...

It appears that the recent Channel 4 and More4 documentary "The Great Global Warming Swindle" has left many viewers doubting that today's climate change is largely humanly caused. In this email, anyone so affected by the programme is urged to view the following information:

1. An introduction to the flaws of the programme. http://climatedenial.org/2007/03/09/the-great-channel-four-swindle/ (or Google "climate denial", go to 9 Mar post.)

2. How a similar docu on Channel 4 by the same director Martin Durkin in 1997 was rapped by the ITC, in particular for misleading four featured interviewees and distorting their views. See Parags. 8-11 of http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2001694,00.html

3. Prof. Carl Wunsch says: I was misled and misrepresented in the 'swindle' documentary http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2347526.ece

4. http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=414 (or Google "Realclimate", go to 9 Mar post.) Climate scientists' view of some of the key flawed or discredited claims made by the programme (some of which you may have seen elsewhere). A site praised by Scientific American, with explanations for the medieval grapes, why Thames stopped freezing, and loads more.

5. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3268874#post3268874 - with THAT graph clearly explained, plus a clear guide to the links of some of the interviewees.

6. Royal Society and science academies around the world joint statement on climate change: http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/news.asp?id=3226 (or via Google "Royal Society").

7. A blog discussion on the programme, including details of apparent breaches of the Broadcasting Code, and how to complain. http://portal.campaigncc.org/node/1820 (or Google "Climate Campaign Portal".)

	From: wolfstormdancer	Date: March 14th, 2007 12:31 am (UTC)		(Link)
	Re: Some thoughts...

Mmmmm I will of course read your links and with all due consideration make my own judgments as to the veracity of "Global Warming." Of course I would probably be more inclined to do so if there was a NAME associated with this post. Hiding Behind an anonymous tag is an act of someone who does not believe in his own words or those he/she posts. Some of my thoughts about the politicalization of science are not fit for print, and most of my thoughts concerning the HYSTERICAL MEDIA ATTENTION with global warming I will keep to myself. I know a little bit about climatology and meteorology and am self educating myself everyday. I find it curious that dissenting opinions are shouted down and drown out, and even more interesting that the leaders of this so-called science are rich beyond my wildest dreams of avarice. Al Gore for example. I cannot help but find reason to doubt this sham of a science when everything I see points to fraud.

	From: wolfstormdancer	Date: March 14th, 2007 03:47 pm (UTC)		(Link)
	Re: Some thoughts...

On the link in number one. This is a list of personal attacks with links to Wikipiedia for backup? Give me a break. Convince me with facts not personal attacks.

You second link sends me to a Bush Bashing Article published by the Guardian and written by one of the most Rabid Bush haters on that rag... sorry no facts here just hate and derision.

on link 3. Ok Professor recants what he said in the movie. I can accept that. Prove to me that his livelihood wasn't threatened by MIT. Had you pointed me here http://ocean.mit.edu/~cwunsch/papersonline/responseto_channel4.pdf
instead then your argument would have had more impact. Prof Wunsch does not have tenure.

On link 4 now this is a link thats worth something. but in the interests of open and free debate I wonder at who is signing their paychecks.

On link 5 this is a global warming forum. I have read this forum for a while and any dissenting opinion is systematically called rubbish. Sorry invalid. And this http://www.gcrio.org/CONSEQUENCES/winter96/sunclimate.html
Debunks your link.

on link 6 Oh so the Royal Society issues an Edict and the rest of the world should follow along? Sorry ... not buying it.

And as far as posting BLOGS as sources. Don't waste my time.

In summary You have posted 1 link that may be of use. One that I will explore.
Anytime Science and Politics become as intermingled as this particular issue it is clear that scientific objectivity goes out the freaking window. I remain skeptical and for good reason. There is NO POSITIVE PROOF EITHER WAY that man has made global warming worse or better and when your spokes person is Al Gore, the man who uses 20 times as much energy per month than a "normal" household uses in a YEAR then it is time to really look hard and long at the motivations.

I also have serious doubts about anything that corrupt, scandal ridden political atrocity that currently resides in New York has anything to do with. I am of course talking about the UN. The people that brought you Oil for Food, Child raping soldiers, and Sudan and Dafur. The people that put N.Korea, and China on the Council for human rights....

	From: jakkal	Date: March 14th, 2007 08:45 pm (UTC)		(Link)

You're right, those videos are bullshit. I think it's amazing that they're taking the most extreme *and* opposite stance of reality. They find a couple of quacks, likely the same "scientists" that support Intelligent Design, to support their propaganda driven drivel.

I'm amazed everyday at people who are so ignorant about the world around them.

	From: wolfstormdancer	Date: March 15th, 2007 12:37 am (UTC)		(Link)

I not saying the videos are 100 % factual. Never did. With Climatology there are so many factor the go into the hows and whys of change that to narrow it down to any one thing is absurd. It illustrates the point however that alternative veiws of what is occuring are being suppressed if they do not agree with the current populist science of the day. Whenever science and politics colide objectivity and reason get thrown out with the bathwater. Claiming that climate change is solely the fault of Man and CO2 emissions is just as absurd as these videos.

	From: jakkal	Date: March 15th, 2007 02:45 am (UTC)		(Link)

I'm not sure about what's going on in the UK, but it's quite the opposite here. No one is taking climatologists seriously. Global climate change is a fact, much in the same way evolution is a fact. However many think that because it's just a 'theory' that they can refute it easily.

I could barely stomach the first five minutes of the first episode as they try to twist the propaganda right into you. And they managed to go against everything I've known about climatology, especially from my classes at university.

The question is not "Is GCC real" the question is "Did mankind cause it?"

If you're waiting for some big, huge spontaneous disaster to occur in order to believe GCC, it's not going to happen, this will all be gradual. There is proof in the arctic now of climate change towards a warming trend. Other parts of the world, concurrently will see a cooling trend. This is why a lot of people don't believe the "Global warming" theory, even though you have to look at the big picture.

It only takes a few degrees to profoundly change the world. That's important to keep in mind as well.